The low-down on Canadaland's open call for pitches.
Vol. 21 - Julie Shapiro on Canadaland podcast development, rejection-beer-walks, youth mental health, and so many new shows!
Hihi!! Happy Pod the North Tuesday! 78 days until I’m on the east coast of Canada.
In this issue:
Canadaland is calling for podcast pitches, and Julie Shapiro says the infrastructure is there to help launch new shows.
Canadian Indie: Resurrection
True North Podcast Feature: Indigenous 150+
SO MANY NEW CANADIAN SHOWS
ICYMI: There are currently 31 long-term drinking water advisories in effect in 27 First Nations communities across Canada.
ICYMI: Canadaland is calling for podcast pitches!
Around the holidays last year, I walked into the Canadaland office to find Jesse Brown in the midst of talking about Pod the North and the community that existed within the Canadian podcasting space — how much talent is out there.
(Full disclosure, Canadaland’s Wag the Doug is one of my many freelancing gigs that I produce, and I was invited to their Christmas party. I wasn’t just marching into the office for no reason.)
I didn’t know what would come of Jesse’s comments but they were certainly encouraging to hear, and not just for selfish-recognition-reasons (though that too). And now that the network has opened up a call for podcast pitches, I’m for sure taking some credit on this move (whether or not that’s only canon in my recent journal entries).
But here’s the real gist without my braggadocious commentary.
While this isn’t the first time we’ve seen call-outs for podcast pitches from Canadian networks, but it’s definitely a rarity to see one coming from an independant network that is funded in large part by its audience.
And the cherry on top is that audio industry icon, Julie Shapiro (PRX, Radiotopia, Third Coast International Audio Festival, @TheHorseThread), has also joined the Canadaland team to advise them through development. Julie is highly Google-able. A quick search and you’ll find her name associated with plenty of other studios and networks where she’s lead audience growth and overseen podcast development.
Canadaland’s pitching info page answers all the classic questions you might have about submitting your idea; How would the money work? Who benefits from the intellectual property? When will I hear back?
All in all, this is a big deal. But why is Canadaland really seeking out podcast pitches from the pubic, and who are they really looking for pitches from?
Thoughts from the ecosystem:
Julie Shapiro says the infrastructure is there at Canadaland to help launch new shows.
Julie says she came into the podcasting world through listening, music, a love of documentary, and live events, which ultimately landed her at the Third Coast International Audio Festival where she told me she really found her calling.
“I think every decision I've made professionally has had something to do with the opportunity to support creators, build community, and experiment with the form, and really trust that beautiful things will come.”
“It's a very generous, collaborative space; the audio world. It may not feel that way right now, and that's one thing that I'm working on and very excited about.”
Julie Shapiro
I talked to Julie to get the nitty gritty details of Canadaland’s call-out, and find out why she decided to join Canadaland and lead them through the podcast development process.
This interview has been edited for brevity.
Kattie Laur: So as far as I know, you're not a Canadian yourself, right?
Julie Shapiro: Well, funny you should say that. No, I'm not a Canadian. But when I did my backpacking around New Zealand for three months, I actually had a little maple leaf on my coat so people would presume I was Canadian and not American. And it totally worked!
KL: Oh, you're just appropriating Canadian-ism!
JS: Right, I'm stealing your culture… no, clearly I'm an American, but I have long loved and supported a lot of Canadian work.
Thinking back to Third Coast, some of our earliest collaborators came from CBC or from independents. The great Chris Brooks, who recently passed away was one of our first international friends, and so I absorbed, fed, and consumed a lot of Canadian content in those years of Third Coast, which was part of the foundation for my own audio professional perspective.
KL: So what's your mission for Canadaland? What are you hoping to get done?
JS: Well, I was very excited by the invitation to come and help Canadaland continue exploring what they can do and think about the indie community in Canada and beyond — really saying ‘what else?, what's out there in Canada? Who can Canadaland support? What are the opportunities for Canadian producers? Let's provide some.’
We're looking for creative ideas, producers who have a fire in their belly about something that they feel really driven to do and need support – whether it's editorial or otherwise – to get a project done and have a platform.
The hope is to really both broaden and stretch Canadaland's purview and what identifies it as a brand and an offering to Canadian audiences and beyond.
We really wanna have a few shows at the end of the process of the call-out that Canadaland can start working with and put out in the next year, and start the engine of a new production opportunity for Canadians.
KL: What's your sense of why Canadaland is opening up a call for pitches now?
JS: I think there's a recognition of opportunity here and it needs input from the outside world to grow – this is my own personal thought on this.
I think it also gives back to the community saying, you're our listeners, you're our producers. I think a lot of producers have crossed paths with Canadaland over the years, and maybe some of those will be people who submit ideas to do shows.
Now is a time where things feel constricting and what if we open up and find a couple shows to start with. See how it goes, and build slowly.
The infrastructure is there, the network is there to help launch new shows. It's a continuation of supporting independent thought and creation.
KL: I've noticed that when it comes to calls for podcast pitches in Canada, we've had a couple of different versions, from working with production houses and collaborative projects to opening up pitches to existing indie shows. Are either of those on the docket?
JS: Honestly, I think the first round we'll consider everything that comes in the door and some of these outliers might help us rethink the whole thing.
It's a very flexible, nimble team and effort, so the goal is really just to discover something kind of magical and perfect for Canadaland, and the unknown is who that will come from, what shape it will take, and what it needs to have.
We're keeping it very broad because part of this is trusting that the ideas will come to us because we've provided the platform, and right now there aren't a lot of shops saying, "Hey, send us your ideas. We wanna invest in some of them."
In terms of style, we're throwing down the gauntlet to say, "push us", "bring something new to us that we can't even conceive of yet."
Perhaps an annoyingly vague answer, but the thing is, we really don't wanna pin it down to a specific thing. I think right now, being open and inviting new ideas is really the best way to go.
But generally we wanna be able to boost somebody's effort, not take an idea from scratch to finish all internally at Canadaland. So having some experience, whether it's in production or storytelling or media, is probably key to finding ideas that we can maximize.
KL: So it almost sounds like a good pitch would probably come from somebody who's been working in audio, journalism, or storytelling spaces for a long time, rather than a brand new indie podcaster?
JS: I think lightning can strike anywhere so I wouldn't rule the latter scenario out. But I think people who understand the medium coming in with some experience and are listeners themselves and knows what works, what you can do and what you can't do, and what belongs on the page and what belongs in your ears, that's a real benefit to anybody bringing an idea.
First and foremost, Canadaland wants to create some new shows in the next year. But also, how can that ripple effect benefit even more than just those shows that come out and the people that make them. Does the prompt for submissions get someone thinking about an idea that's been tucked away and maybe it doesn't come to us, but in a year they can't stop thinking about it and it comes out in a different shape.
KL: In terms of content, what kind of scope are you looking to produce then? I mean, the call-out references Thunder Bay and that's a pretty large scope narrative and investigation.
JS: It's not one thing, right? Maybe we end up with a highly produced five episode series and a weekly show that is a delightful, low lift production, and we can do both. Or maybe that means we can do three shows instead of two.
No idea is gonna be made in a vacuum, and we're really thinking about a small slate suite of shows that balance each other out, and maybe speak to each other in some interesting way.
KL: How much detail are you looking for in a pitch?
JS: We have the pitch form and it probably reads like every other pitch form that you've read. When I read through pitches, I'm looking for something very grounded and magical in front of me, and I'm looking for potential.
I don't need a deck to get excited about working with someone, I need to feel a connection to what they're pitching me. I need to feel their enthusiasm, their excitement, [and] their need to tell this story.
I think detail is great, so we want to know ideas, we want to know connections to the story, and access a sense of what it will sound like — what's the tone? All of this is helping me know who you are as a pitcher.
For me, a lot of decisions are often made around the relationship that's gonna form between the producer and the commissioning entity. So this is a chance for whoever's pitching to really show their stuff so I read every word and think about how they express themselves in this idea. Sometimes that it is unpolished and you have to dig a little bit, but something has to spark the potential for this creative relationship ahead.
Of course the idea has to be there too; something original, fresh, unique. And it's hard to suggest a way to get there. I often think proximity to the topic — whether it's a personal relationship or just a deep felt connection, interest, curiosity and passion for something — that has to come through the pitch.
KL: On that note, you mentioned being an established person in this industry would likely get you at least a conversation. But you are open to indies as well.
For indies who are not as seasoned in pitching, I think sometimes they will focus on how “professional” their pitch sounds and use language that is not very natural or exciting, and can end up writing a pretty boring pitch. Do you have advice about how people should approach how they write their pitch?
JS: [Write your pitch] as authentically your own voice.
Looking at a pile of podcast entries, many of them say the same thing; comparing this idea to other shows already in the know.
I think there's magic in the little-er details, the quieter moments. The “throw away” moments are actually very revealing about an idea.
So I would say to not try too hard. Pitch the story as you would explain it to somebody sitting in the bar [or] on a plane next to someone. Podcasting is intimate, and personal, and casual, so it doesn't need to be dressed up and formalized, and that isn't the kind of show that we're looking for anyway.
KL: How much feedback are you prepared to give?
JS: I think feedback is so helpful and in the spirit of this being for the community, there are thoughts about how we can make this event of a call-out do more than just find two shows or three shows for us.
But with feedback it's always a matter of time and resources. There may not be detailed feedback for every pitch we say ‘no’ to, but I think there is a hope that there's at least some general sense of why it's not right for Canadaland.
Anything we're remotely interested in, we're gonna have a lot of follow up questions. We'll need to go back and forth for us to suss out what kind of development it needs [and] how far along it is.
We can't promise specific feedback on pitches (simply not enough bandwidth) but we will be in touch to let folks know if we're interested, by August 1.
What Julie is loving listening to:
Check out this Canadian Indie: Resurrection
The story of Dane Stewart, a playwright in Montreal, and what he did with a cache of love letters and scripts by a playwright named Daryl Allen, who died in 1991 from HIV/AIDS.
Over eight episodes, Dane gives new life to understanding what it was like to be an artist and gay man in the 60s, 70s, 80s, all the way through to today, through Dane's own personal reflections and journey.
A note from Dane:
Ah, nothing like a good ol’ rejection beer walk.
I don’t know about you, but as a new podcaster creating an indie narrative series about a person no one has ever heard of… I’ve been rejected a lot. It’s part of the game, but it still sucks.
During COVID lockdowns (god, I’ve been working on this series for too long), I developed a rejection strategy I’d like to share with you all: the rejection beer walk. When you get an email that crushes your hopes and dreams, just grab a beer (preferably sour, to match your mood), put on your favourite song (preferably Tubthumping by Chumbawamba), and go for a little walk (preferably at Parc Mont Royal in Montreal).
Voila! You still feel sad, but now you’re outside with a light buzz. Problem solved. Now go give a little listen to Resurrection!! <3 <3
True North Podcast Feature: Indigenous 150+
The stories of First Peoples and the land.
Change makers from across Canada celebrate Indigenous voices and cultures.
What’s going on in Canada’s podcast ecosystem:
SO MANY NEW SHOW ANNOUNCEMENTS!
From TVO Today and Tiffany Lam: In Our Heads.
One in five Canadian youth today are struggling with their mental health. Professionals are calling it a crisis. The pandemic has only made mental health matters worse for young people and their families. Is this crisis unique to the generations coming of age today? Or are we finally acknowledging mental health is health in more nuanced ways? From TVO Today, In Our Heads examines what’s going on inside the minds of our young people, while offering strategies for better mental health on a policy, cultural, and individual level. A collaboration with the reporters behind the Investigative Journalism Bureau and Toronto Star series “Generation Distress,” released in 2020 and 2021. Hosted by Tiffany Lam.
From Jeremy Enns, Jordan Stothers and The Sonar Network: Summer Camp: The Case of the Phantom Pooper.
Based on a true story, Summer Camp: The Case of the Phantom Pooper follows camp director Mookie as he struggles to solve a string of seriously smelly pranks. His attempts to trace a prolific prankster uncover more mischief than he bargained for. Join Mookie and his team on this whimsical caper, and find yourself transported to the best place on earth: summer camp. Written and produced by Jeremy Enns and Jordan Stothers. Audio editing by Josh Ankenmann of soundflip.co. Music by Matt McGinley of Small Talk Music (Serial, S-Town, This American Life).
From the Harbinger Media Network’s 12th Wave expansion, three new shows!
Labour Intensive: The labour movement from a Canadian perspective with Jody Tomchishen.
Data Decoded: Exploring the methods that data activists employ with Hannah Grover.
Canada Re-Imagined: Looking at climate change, poverty, tribalism and other intractable problems in a futuristic, utopian, factual, heretical and humorous weekly podcast.
New investigative True Crime from CBC Podcasts: The Banned Teacher.
From Julie Ireton, The Banned Teacher is a new investigation in a different city. He was her music teacher. She was a teen. And it wasn't just once, with one girl. The Banned Teacher begins with one victim's search for justice but turns into a full investigation. Warning: This series contains graphic descriptions of sexual assault.
Just Joe (awaiting a boop)…
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Kattie | @Podkatt
(Find me on Twitter and Goodpods)
