Could hackers steal our voices?
Vol. 13 - Voice cloning, keeping indie podcasting fun, and $300K copaganda.
Hihi!! Happy Pod the North Tuesday!
I hope you had the best Family Day yesterday! I spent the whole day playing Stardew Valley and eating snacks with my partner, Mark.
In this issue:
Skepticism about Descript’s voice cloning tool.
Opinionated Lushes say indie podcasting is like a volunteer adventure.
Check out this Canadian Indie: Blacadian.
True North Podcast Feature: Warrior Life.
The Toronto Police Departments $300K unsolved true crime podcast.
ICYMI: There are 32 long-term drinking water advisories in effect in 28 First Nations communities across Canada.
Last week I attended a virtual workshop hosted by Descript that was all about their new “voice cloning” tool, Overdub.
If you’ve never heard of Descript before, it’s an AI powered tool that can be used to transcribe audio (the most common use), cut audio via the transcript or just the waveform itself, mix tracks, and collaborate with teammates. Over the last year they also launched video production tools to the platform, much to many podcasters dismay.
Descript is a common tool amongst podcast production teams who use it to collaborate on audio edits, like revisions and long interview tape that needs to be whittled down from sixty minutes to a tight twenty.
The launch of Descript’s new voice cloning tool, Overdub, means that now, by “listening” to about thirty minutes of tape of you speaking, Descript’s Artificial Intelligence can learn and output the sound of your voice.
The obvious benefit here, and most of what I keep hearing Descript promote itself, is that; let’s say you’re editing your voice over and you messed up a sentence, but you’re not in your normal recording space or don’t have access to a mic. Instead, you can just type in the words to your script and let the AI say it in your voice instead.
Boom. Voice Clone.
The Overdub workshop also came at a coincidental moment for me, as I was right in the midst of editing an episode of the BetaKit podcast that was all about artificial intelligence and cybersecurity. (Yes, Douglas, your show inspired another newsletter).
In the show, Ian Paterson, CEO at Plurilock Security, described all the wild ways that, essentially, AI identity theft is ever present.
The only thing I could think about in this voice cloning Overdub workshop was whether or not Descript’s platform is actually secure enough to take in all of this really personal, identity data.
Could hackers steal our voices?
When I asked their team in the workshop chat I was directed to this link to the Descript FAQ Page. Unsatisfied with the clear dodge of the question and barely understanding the security jargon on the FAQ page anyway, I reached out to Ian to get his thoughts.
Here’s Ian’s comment about what Descript’s new voice cloning tool means for your cybersecurity:
Descript’s voice cloning tool is a great example of the deflationary effects that AI is having on the economics of cyber attacks.
It's becoming cheaper (and the tools more accessible) for bad actors to launch hyper personalized, incredibly convincing spear phishing campaigns. Now, they can do so with audio, instead of just text.
How does that change the landscape?
Most Canadians are familiar with fake text messages from Canada Post to pick up a package. Imagine instead that you get a voice memo from someone who sounds like your boss, telling you that he’s in car, can’t talk, and needs you to order + send a gift card? These attacks are just around the corner.
Ian L. Paterson - CEO, Plurilock Security
If the subscription fee for Descripts Overdub package doesn’t actually seem like it’s that accessible to the average podcaster, it’s a drop in the bucket for hackers who, according to Ian on the podcast, are spending millions hacking Jeff Bezos’ phone number alone.
Regardless of how much this all freaks me out and how much I never want 2004’s I, Robot to become a reality, I’m honestly not convinced this feature is worth the trouble all together.
You likely won’t catch me using it simply because it doesn’t seem that great. In the demo, one of the hosts recorded the sentence “I had some tasty desserts” himself onto Descript, then used the AI tool to retake the word “tasty” which come out like:
“I had some TASTY. Desserts.” — hopefully you can catch the robot inflection there.
It also seems to take a lot of time and detailed dedication to create an AI that is pretty convincing as you and doesn’t dip into an auditory uncanny valley.
In order for the AI to pick up your speaking mannerisms and tonality, you really need to spend a lot of time recording audio for it to learn from, and categorizing that audio in order to actually use the full range of your speaking. Your somber talking dataset, your happy talking dataset, even your sarcastic talking dataset.
I don’t know many podcasters who have that kind of extra time on their hands, despite how novel that does sound to play around with.
Coming from a Star Wars household I also can’t forget to mention that this voice cloning tech isn’t necessarily new. Mark Hamill’s voice was entirely AI generated in the recent 2022 The Book of Boba Fett TV series, with Disney opting to hire a computer instead of a voice actor to play a younger Luke Skywalker. That’s Disney money for ya.
I wonder how high Mark Hamill’s cybersecurity risk is? Did he get royalties from this?
I’m genuinely curious to hear from anyone who will be using this tool or does already. Otherwise, take this as your gentle reminder to set up your 2FA and not to use the same password for everything.
Check out this Canadian Indie: Blacadian
What it means being both Black and Canadian.
Having fun while making observations on racial identity, social expectations, inequality, the nice Canadian myth and black hair.... lots of black hair.
True North Podcast Feature: Warrior Life
Voices of Indigenous warriors, advocates and leaders.
The front lines of Indigenous resistance, resurgence and revitalization, who are protecting our lands, peoples and sovereignty.
Host, Dr. Pam Palmater, is an Indigenous lawyer and professor who also makes the Warrior Kids Podcast – an award-winning children’s podcast which celebrates everything Indigenous, including languages, stories and cool people. Consider supporting her work!
Thoughts from the ecosystem:
The Opinionated Lushes say indie podcasting is like a volunteer adventure.
As an indie podcaster, every once in a while I’m hit with the reality that my podcast likely won’t grow much more than it already has. It’s a crappy feeling. Truthfully, indie podcasting is the kind of hobby that is often flavoured with a type of ego that’s hard to ignore.
For a lot of hobbyists though, there isn’t much pressure to “make it big” and see any kind of return on investment. Most knitters, potters, gardeners, and gamers don’t expect to see much recognition. It just feels good to do the thing they love.
That’s why it was so dang refreshing to talk to Dawn Marie Walton, Jessica Hart, and Saunya Killman, the hosts of indie chat podcast, Opinionated Lushes. Though these three friends are split between Hamilton and the east coast, for almost a year they’ve spent every Friday night virtually playing drinking games and recording their podcast — just because they love to hang out.
I started listening to their show during my investigation for good Anything & Everything podcasts and was hooked by their authenticity and the sheer amount of fun they seemed to be having. Listening to their show, I can’t help but shout things out like I’m there in the conversation. It feels like I should have a mimosa in hand.
Their story started one boozy night in a Hamilton Montanas (iconic Southern Ontario vibes), with the tried-and-true phrase “we should totally start a podcast”.
So a couple weeks ago, I talked to them about keeping the spark alive in indie podcasting, their goals and expectations, and what they get out of it all. This conversation gave me so much life!
Here’s our chat:
This interview has been edited and condensed for brevity.
KL: Tell me about how you started Opinionated Lushes!
OL: We hadn't seen each other for a few months because Saunya had moved [to the east coast] and she was coming to visit [us in] Hamilton. We [went] to Montana's and we’re drinking, we’re talking, we're laughing, and then Saunya's like, ‘we should start a podcast’.
The next week Jessica was like, ‘we're not releasing [a podcast] untill we have at least three episodes recorded or I'm not doing it, because I need commitment.’
Then we just threw it together and a month later, April 2022, we had a podcast!
KL: Getting commitment from all three of you, how easy was that and how long term were you thinking?
OL: Well, we all have ADHD, so [we] thought maybe after the first three episodes we wouldn't continue. [Saunya] did not take it serious at all at first. [She] thought it was just a hang.
But we just met once a week, every Friday night, online to drink and record. [Jessica] took the audio, edited it, and then released it, and that's what we did every week for the past year — and we've never missed a week! [Jessica] wanted to bank episodes in case [Dawn Marie and Saunya] flaked, and was preparing for when we eventually quit, but we didn't.
KL: The show is almost a year old and indie, so how are you thinking about sponsorships and growth at this point?
OL: We would love some sponsors, and we do have marketing plans to try to get breweries and stuff to partner with us. We're explicit so not all sponsors feel comfortable but we are starting to send emails now, especially because we're in the thousands of downloads and we're getting similar numbers every week.
There's this podcast set in the UK, Rich and Jimmy Watch a Film, and they're just a movie podcast. [Jessica] was DMing them one night and was like, ‘we should just switch podcasts’ — give each other rough audio and let the other edit.
So we watched a movie and they became The Opinionated Lushes. We had to do intros and everything the same, and that is one of our best episodes.
We like to experiment with stuff like that. We also have the new Books and Booze series which just came out. So for being our first year, we feel like we’re doing good! It's just making content while having fun. And we have realistic goals I think.
KL: What are those goals?
OL: A thousand downloads in a year. To have 50 followers on Spotify. We beat [those], so we just raise our goals slightly. Our main goal is to stay consistent.
We notice a lot of people are like, “we're not making money, so we need to stop doing it”. Some people do [make money] and good for them, but podcasting's not really a money maker. It's like a volunteer adventure.
Celebrities get paid millions of dollars to do their podcasts so people are like, ‘well I didn't get my thousand or million dollar paycheck.’ We would even like ten dollars.
A lot of people quit after not even doing it for six months because they didn't go into it for the right reasons. We don't wanna judge people for their adventures, but if you're going to go into podcasting to get money, you're gonna fail.
KL: I mean, look at Spotify. They just dumped so much money into celebrity podcasts that they thought would bring them a lot of listeners and a lot of money fast, and it didn't work!
So everyone’s talking about YouTube. How is your YouTube performing?
OL: Not as good as we want. The videos are unedited and those get more views than just the audio ones. People who go to YouTube wanna actually watch what we're saying. They wanna see us, they don't wanna listen to us.
But YouTube seems to be mostly used for gamers and streamers.
And it's mostly kids using YouTube. We feel like we aren't actually popping up a lot [on YouTube] because people have parental controls on their computers. I feel like that might also be holding us back, but it's also for good reason.
KL: If you had an unlimited budget and unlimited time, what would be some immediate changes you would make to the show?
OL: First of all, moving Saunya back [to Hamilton]. We'd build the “bitch barn” in [Jessica’s] backyard, which would be our studio. We would hire an editor, a video editor, a marketer and a social media manager.
We just don't wanna do anything but talk.
Plus, we’d have daycare, so we’d make a podcast for every special interest we have.
What Opinionated Lushes are listening to:
Thank you Dawn Marie, Jessica and Saunya! Keep doing what you’re doing!
What’s going on in Canada’s podcast ecosystem:
In case you missed it, CBC reported that the Toronto Police Department has spent over $300K on their podcast, 24 Shades of Blue, created in partnership with production company, Oxie & Ax Inc. This whole story sparked a lot of thoughts online, and for me and for my colleagues over at Vocal Fry Studios which I shared on their newsletter last week. There is so much to unpack here!
Don’t forget! Podcamp Toronto is this weekend, Feb 24-26! Heads up, security is requesting that attendees and presenters are pre-registered before you show up. If you’re going to be there, come say hi to me at my session on Saturday at 3pm!
Matt Mise is the new Head of Pacific Content, who comes in with an impressive resume in radio and media!
Spotify is looking at how TikTok is doing things in order enhance discovery on their platform. On a recent Soundbites newsletter, Ashley Carman reported that Spotify will launch a vertically swiped homepage. “Enhancing discovery” seems like an insincere term for Spotify because I really only see this as a way to make their own content easier to find. I imagine the swiping experience will likely be 1:5 ratio for Indie shows vs Spotify shows at best, but I guess we’ll see! Suss out the vibe for yourself in their Investor Day presentation.
Hot Docs Podcast Festival is back in Toronto in May! I’m sure there’s more info to come soon, but early bird ticket rates are available now.
For your pod:
- 's incredible newsletter, now has a podcast! Courtney's work is an incredible resource for podcasters across the board, so make sure your keeping an eye on her content to help you with your show!
Bumper’s Jonas Woost recently took over
writing about success metrics for indie podcasters. Give it a read!- and Adela Mizrachi’s podcast, Feed the Queue, is back featuring shows that catch their attention! Submit your show by emailing: feedthequeue [at] gmail [dot] com
Don’t forget, the inbox is still open to pitch your existing indie show to join the Frequency Podcast Network! Send them an email to: hello [at] frequencypodcastnetwork [dot] com.
Incase you missed the Twitter Spaces two weeks ago about pitching your podcast to be featured on newsletters, catch the replay here!
Finally, a word from Joe…
If you have thoughts or questions about this newsletter, please share them with me! Leave a comment or reply to the newsletter email. If you’re feeling generous you can also pledge monetary support through Substack or buy me a coffee!
Thanks for supporting Pod the North, I’ll be back in your inbox in two weeks!
Kattie | @podkatt
(Find me on Twitter, Post, Spotify, and Goodpods)
Glad to see so much of the TPS budget was spent on post-production... 😬