Canada needs more music podcasts. Here's why...
Vol. 61 - The symbiotic relationship betweeen Canadian indie music and Canadian indie podcasts, ft. Your Worst Song... and celebrated folk icon, Ivan Rivers.
Hihi!! Happy Pod the North Tuesday!
PSA: This week is going to be absolutely frigid across the country! As you take inventory of all your cold-weather clothing, remember that you can to donate your extras to your local warming center, and to keep an eye on your community’s most vulnerable. Provide transportation to those warming centers if you can!
In this issue:
Why Canada needs more music podcasts.
Canadian Indie: Material Girls
True North Podcast Feature: Relentless Indigenous Woman
What’s up in the ecosystem: Will Canadaland’s Jesse Brown run as a Liberal candidate?
Meet Shivani!
BTW:
As of November 7th, 2024, there are currently 31 long-term drinking water advisories in effect in 29 First Nations communities across Canada.
Canada needs more music podcasts. Here's why...
“The industry is not healthy”, Alex Southey told me.
“There are a bunch of reasons for that. One is not the best funding. There is funding [and] I'm thankful for that, but it's not great, and what's there is pretty convoluted… [but] people are beginning to want a real change.”
Alex Southey is the host and creator of the podcast Your Worst Song…, and when we talked he wasn’t telling me about independent podcasting. He was talking about the Canadian indie music scene.
Outside of the podcasting landscape, I’m a Canadian indie music fan. That’s also why growing up I wanted to be a radio DJ or the next George Stroumboulopoulos. But what I’ve uncovered by working in Canadian podcasting is that you don’t need to work in radio or for the national public broadcaster to talk to incredible musicians. Canadian Music Podcasts like Your Worst Song… are here to expose Canadian talent and support the space in ways that music journalism and radio used to. But right now, Canadian Music Podcasts are few and far between, so here are my arguments as to why we need more of them.
A foot in the door
Alex Southey is a musician first and foremost. He started YWS… in the summer of 2024, and each episode invites a band or music artist to talk about the things they're proud of and notably, the worst song they've ever released publicly. He told me that not only did his show serve as a way to draw eyes and ears to his music, but it “selfishly” serves as a valuable foot-in-the-door to the music industry. “Podcasting was meant to be something on the side [and] I thought it was a funny premise,” he told me, “[but] a lot of the music industry is who you know and this podcast introduced me to other people I may not have met as quickly.”
Since launching the podcast, Your Worst Song… has featured nearly fifty bands and artists; all potential new supporters of Alex Southey music, especially if he impresses them with his interview. “Not only do I hope that listeners of the podcast listen to my music, but the people I interview, I hope they listen to my music because many of them are, in my opinion, far bigger or more successful than I am.” In less than a year, WYS… has already featured a number of notable Canadian rockers, including Dan Mangan, Danny Miles (the drummer from July Talk), and Canadian singer/songwriter, Ivan Rivers, who plays “Divorce Cowboy, Emo, Ghost Folk, Haunted Saloon-Pop” as a solo artist, and is part of the “Ontario-based Party-Angst, Anthem Punk band,” Stuck Out Here.
The new front page coverage
Ivan Rivers came to me with a ton of fascinating insights as a Canadian indie musician, a former music journalist, and a big-time podcast listener. He told me that simply having his name next to July Talk on a roster of YWS… episodes was a breakthrough enough—especially since the traditional ways of getting music publicity are practically obsolete.
“We're talking about the rise of podcasts, [but] we're looking at the fall of modern casual, periodical journalism,” he told me. “We've watched so many of these great bastions of print and online music journalism fall victim to lack of financial support… There was a certain point when you could access these institutions to have them feature your music–let's say Exclaim! Magazine. It gets harder and harder to break through when their inboxes shut down.” For a while, print magazines like NOW and Exclaim! would have artists countered among each other, with indies names displayed beside the bands they admired themselves. Ivan says podcasts can do that now, and give Canadian musicians a chance to be revered in a way that they “always wanted to in the review section.”
As a podcast fan, Ivan also loves to appear as a guest on his favourite podcasts not only because it’s fun but also because it’s a public reflection of his scene. A fan of The Weakerthans, he appeared as a guest on Sounds Familiar, a show that was actually endorsed by The Weakerthans and features a ton of other notable musical guests. “I'm literally watching the guests on that show and it's Frank Turner, The Lowest of the Low, Skye Wallace. The company you keep is broadcast in a very concrete way now. I listened to Danny Miles from July Talk [on Your Worst Song…] and it was so fun to hear him say, “I was listening to the podcast with Ivan, and Ivan was talking about Hillside...’ With a podcast, it's this democratization of full-on opportunity to access everybody.”
After his interview, Danny Miles also checked out Alex Southey’s music “and liked it,” Alex told me. “That's all you can really ask for.”
Ripe for meaningful connection
Podcasts can do more for Canadian indie musicians than print ever did, and that’s thanks to the the intimacy of audio and the democratized nature of podcasting. “With podcasts you can broadcast your craft but you can discuss it [too],” Ivan explained. “Depending on the musician too, how they can elucidate their experience of creating the craft or what they're hoping to make or express, it translates a lot better when you can hear things like tone. When you can hear things like attitude. I think a really great writer can do a lot of that, [but] with a podcast, you're hearing it from the source.”
The countless neighbourhoods of niche podcasts out there also means that audiences are easier for artists to get in front of. “Often [with] too large, nebulous, nationwide or international publications, you can get lost in the sea of separation. There's so many micro regions [of music] that exist on their own merit and their own terms. I consider myself part of the Southwestern Ontario punk scene, but then in Toronto I exist in the roots scene here, and the country and folk scenes. There's so many conversations happening between disparate forms and expressions, but it's all linked by people who really love good tunes.”
Podcasts give music fans an avenue to go “all in” on their favourite genre, musician or scene, and get up close a personal, and Ivan knows this from experience. “You fall in love with something and me, I go all in. I want to read everything, I want to listen to every album, watch every film of a director, watch every episode of a TV show. With podcasting, you can get lost into these worlds.”
Hearing a musician talk about their craft also helps music fans decide who they’re going to spend their time with, and this is something that’s especially important for the growing generation of young podcast listeners who want to know the ethics behind the people and art that they support. This trend is growing across all generations, and Ivan agrees. “If I hear a certain musician and I just disagree with him on a fundamental human level, then it also helps me to opt out.”
A symbiotic relationship
Strikingly, for Canadian indie musicians and Canadian indie podcasters alike, it tends to be the same players that are stunting their ability to thrive in their respective ecosystems. As Spotify continues to reward podcasting titans like Joe Rogan with $200 million dollar deals, fair payment models from podcast streamers seem further and further away.
Canadian indie podcasts continue to have their content buried and struggle make a living from their craft, and it’s the same music. “Streaming services have just taken a bunch of the money away from what musicians [and] labels were earning,” Alex told me, “I don't honestly think that the industry will change completely until massive artists like Taylor Swift or Harry Styles choose to leave Spotify and go to a different, more fair model. Dan Mangan [has] been really outspoken about stuff like this, [and] bigger and bigger artists are talking about it.”
Instead of looking to big industry players for fair compensation and discovery models, indie musicians and podcasters are turning inward, and looking to their respective communities for support. “The brutal part is [that] it usually takes something missing to create a scene, but now we're past the ‘something missing’”. It means the DIY scenes for podcasts and music are growing, and they’re working in tandem.
Much like in indie podcasting, Ivan says he’s seen the DIY attitude explode since the COVID-19 pandemic. Like power-podcast listeners, music lovers are opting to find those niche scenes. “If you can find a space, and you can put on your own show, people are going to find their way there and it's not always centered around these bastions of credibility. It does feel like a particularly exciting time these past few years, I love seeing a lot of these young bands, whether it's more traditional indie rock, or fifth wave emo and they're wearing eyeliner and they're like 20 years old, this shit rules so much to me. That fervor awakened after the dormant period of the “Indoor Times’. You see bands just going for it.”
The combination of bands “just going for it” and indie podcasts documenting their journey is creating a symbiotic relationship that in turn establishes credibility to both scenes. Alex says that podcasts about Canadian music serve an important role in uplifting it. “I think by choosing to document something, you make it more real to people,” Alex said. “If we document the Canadian music scene, it actually legitimizes it even more. There's something for somebody five years from now to go back to and go, ‘somebody thought it was worthy enough to document’—and as a musician, trust me, all we hear about is the indie scene in Toronto and Montreal in the early 2000s, and how great it was, and how it'll never be like that.” Choosing to document Canadian indie music when no one else will, no matter the size of audience, makes podcasts the new bastions of credibility.
“We all live within a world where we have to funnel through the channels provided,” says Ivan. “I think right now, podcasting is one of the ways that's least tethered to the institutions that hold us back. It's all your own homemade whimsy.”
“Hardscrabble homemade whimsy.”
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Check out this Canadian Indie: Material Girls
Get your pop culture fix with some academic theory added to the mix.
Join feminist scholars Hannah McGregor and Marcelle Kosman for episodic dives into the zeitgeist. Together they ask the materialist question "why this, why now?" about books that are on everyone's nightstands, songs that are on rotation, movies that have captured social media discourse — and so much more. Personally, I’m a massive fan of this show!
True North Podcast Feature: Relentless Indigenous Woman
Embark on a transformative journey toward justice and reconciliation.
Through a unique blend of traditional knowledge, empirical research, and personal lived experiences, the podcast aims to inspire meaningful actions in the pursuit of justice and reconciliation. Navigate the complexities of advocacy, education, and feminism, all while drawing on the strength of traditional wisdom and the power of shared experiences.
What’s going on in Canada’s podcast ecosystem:
New Releases:
Jan 6, 2025 — Season 3 of CBC’s On Drugs is out now. The new season challenges the typical narratives about addiction, exploring what substances reveal about our bodies, about our understanding of consciousness, our motivations, and our very sense of self.
Jan 8, 2025 — Fallout fans, this one’s for you! Double Double Radio: A Fallout Story is a new fiction podcast from Edward Grimm that’s out now! The story follows Conrad Getz, former Vault Dweller, Wasteland Wanderer, and now local Ronto Radio Host as he reports on all the news he can gather from his not-so-little corner of the wasteland.
Jan 13, 2025 — Talking Scheetz is a new podcast from Father-Daughter-Duo Chris and Baillie Scheetz. The show joins former morning radio host and his daughter as they discuss navigating family life, modern challenges, and their evolving relationship.
Jan 17, 2025 — Season 2 of Aborsh, the award-winning podcast about abortion in Canada has launched. The second season continues the exploration of why abortion is still such a “big deal”, what “choice” really means, and and why that answer is different for different people.
Jan 28, 2025 — A Most Audacious Heist the new historical true-crime show from Curiouscast and Blanchard House coming out at the end of January. The new series shares the gripping tale of ambition, risk and obsession, as host Seren Jones tracks a 19th-century empress chasing eternal beauty and a 20th-century thief risking everything to steal her crown jewel, across two centuries, to find out just how far they'll go to get what they desire.
You oughta know…
An incredible group of indigenous woman have recently founded The Indigenous Media Association of Canada. The national media organization is for indigenous storytellers across journalism and broadcasting, and marks a historic milestone in the advancement of indigenous media representation across the country. The association is set to prioritize Indigenous media sovereignty by providing representation at the federal level, advocating for the implementation of UNDRIP Article 16, and pushing for accurate and contextual coverage of Indigenous communities by mainstream media.
Amid a mass exodus in the Liberal Party, Canadaland’s Jesse Brown shared in a recent episode that he received an email from the Chair of the Election Candidate Committee for Eglington-Lawrence, asking if he’d be interested in running as a Liberal. Though it seemed like a joke at first, the email turned out to be a very real inquiry, and one he explained he actually considered for a second before concluding that his role in Canada is to be “the fly who smells the shit”.
has launched , a brand new newsletter for freelancers “looking for solidarity and better strategies”. “Freelancing has become more than a job for me;” she writes in her first issue, “it’s a community that I’m proud to be a part of. I like freelancing - and you can, too! So, let’s make your freelance career into something you can actually enjoy.” Jess has been a wonderful contributer to Pod the North already, and I know HTALF I going to be a valuable read!
The up-and-coming Vancouver-based travel podcast network, Voyascape, has welcomed Curious Tourism to the network! The responsible travel podcast is hosted by award-winning travel writer, Erin Hynes (aka PinaTravels), and produced by yours truly! We’re stoked to be in such good company and to have an exciting new support system.
Lead Podcasting has announced the names behind their first ever advisory committee. The team is dedicated to ensuring Lead Podcasting podcasts are accessible, inclusive, and enjoyable for audiences of all backgrounds, and includes Paul Knopp, Gabrielle McMann, Roger De Leon, Christie Wong, Hillary LeBlanc, Larry Gifford, Jackie Rosen and Amen Jafri.
One of Canada’s most beloved podcasts, The Secret Life of Canada, has announced that it’s come to an end after seven years last week. Don’t miss the bittersweet goodbye episode.
I’m thrilled to share that Shivani Mullerpatan has joined Pod the North has my first ever intern! The whip-smart Humber Polytechnic Broadcast Television and Videography student is set to do some exciting work on season 2 of Canardian, which is due to launch this spring. Keep your eyes peeled for her incredible talent, and send her your words of encouragement!
Events:
Feb 1, 2025 — Resurrection: The Michael Callen Story performs it’s live show in Truro, NS at St Andrews United Church! Part-podcast, part-cabaret, and fully gay, Resurrection tells the story of early AIDS activist Michael Callen through live musical performances.
Feb 21, 2025 — PodCamp Toronto returns next month, the largest, longest-running event in Canada for Podcasters. Tickets run at $0-$90 from now until February 1st.
Mar 3, 2025 — Looking to better your editing chops? Catch the two-hour Audio editing + sound design workshop hosted by Narrative Podcasts for $95.
Good Reads:
Tanner Campbell | How I Sold My Podcast by Accident
Just Joe (‘s tiny ankles)…
Thanks for supporting Pod the North, I’ll be back in your inbox in two weeks!
Kattie
BSKY: @podthenorth.bsky.social | IN: @podthenorth
brb crying at the shout out for HTALF...you're the best